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i just started using it and choose Fedora, and it is indeed a little confusing at first but when you move to linux you should be prepared to study a bit, watch videos, even use your text app to keep stuff and organize commands, its not a move in with full furniture kind of deal and i think thats part of the fun
Wow, so much coping with half-truths and whole lies.
Made me chuckle. My journey started as Windows to Ubuntu and liked it. Tried Arch, fled back to Ubuntu. Hid there a long time.
I know this is satire but Arch is like the worst distro for a newbie…
Worse than NixOS?
Not for a newbie who wants to learn. Arch is actually not difficult at all, just time consuming. If you do a manual install, you have to read about every step and make choices.
Thats how you learn your system. After install, you know exactly what files you modified and where they are if you want to make further changes.
I think it’s a beautiful system. Its not for people who just want a windows replacement though. It’s for people who wants to know their system.
People don’t realize the power that comes from actually knowing how your system works. It’s the same as learning any skill. It gives a feeling of confidence and comfort.
Literally 1984 (sorry, had to)
I’ve gotten this comment 10 times over the last year or so. :)
Depends on the newbie, if the person has some terminal experience it’s ok. If it’s an ipad kid, it’s going to be tough, there’s a lot of new abstraction to understand at every step.
It’s not just ipad kids. Those who just want to work and not mess with the system are better off with Mint or Zorin. If you have to google how to install VLC then an OS has already lost for productivity.
And ironically, AI fixes almost all these problems. Just pull up Deep Seek, drop in whatever the console throws at you and you can get back the answer free of charge. These days the hardest part of bash is remembering that Ctrl+V should be Shift+Ctrl+V.
Don’t, under any circumstances, do that. This is an anti-advice.
Mint and Zorin have been flawless for me.
Installing Mint on my laptop actually fixed a longstanding issue with the speakers. They were working fine for ages on Wibdows, then some reason they just stopped working. Windows could not detect any speakers. It was to a point that I assumed hardware failure, and opened the laptop and traced the audio output to identify a blown sm cap or something, then gave up. It wasn’t until I installed Mint and it made a startup noise that I was like “wtf” because I thought it would never speak again. Turns out windows was just borked.
Installing Zorin on an old thinkcentre desktop just worked perfectly, despite my deep suspicion. I got it set up to meet my workflow perfectly in less time than I would have spent reinstalling windows and getting it dialed in just the way I like.
Is Arch “better”? Maybe, to some people. Could I make it work? It’s possible? Instead of tweaking arch to meet my requirements, could I rather spend my free time gardening or patting the cat? Absolutely.
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I can use most any operating system. I can even enjoy most of them. Understand the “why” of it and even Apple has amazing answers to “we solved X by doing Y.”
Then there’s windows. It does things differently than everyone else, which does have merit in theory. But if you have had decades to prove your point and still haven’t….maybe you’re just fucking wrong.
They had us in the first 83%.
I agree with 1,2 and 3 but I don’t really understand the remaining 2,
I’ve never across the 6 systems I’ve had, had windows brick an install to the point it no longer can restore/recover itself without me doing something really wrong (usually something stupid on the Linux partition). it’s way of handling updates and upgrades is actually something I miss on my current system, with windows if it failed the update it rolled itself back, on Debian I gotta roll a snapshot,which isn’t hard but takes longer and is manual.
I’ve also never had an issue with the UI not looking uniform, or at least anything worse than anything not Apple.
Every time I’ve come across this it’s because windows restore points have been disabled for some reason, or the only restore point happens to be from when it was first installed. Other times it’s been when there are 2 hard drives installed and it somehow shits the bed and installs the bootloader to one and the os to the other, or upgrades to one disk but leaves a half valid install on the other, then boots the old install. Generally getting confused about multiple disks
I once accidentally bricked a windows install by replacing the system font with another font, while calling it the same. The system crashed on boot, and apparently the recovery menu also uses the same file, because it instantly crashed too. Had to do a complete reinstall of that one…
On the UI not being uniform, you may not have noticed, but it’s awful. They’ve fixed some stuff, but there was a point with win11 when 40% of the apps were light theme when you had dark theme. Even to this day, you have a complete mix of icons from different generations of windows in different menus (hell, there are still win95 icons in some places, and you can still set them up as folder icons). Some apps, despite rendering with the modern w11 style, clearly have the structure from decades ago (in fact, to this day, you can find menus from windows 3.11 in windows 11, and it also comes with the dialer app hidden in System32). Context menus are also another incredibly inconsistent thing, and for the longest time, win11 had 3 types of context menu styles that were used seemingly at random (some of the context menus also rendered in light mode even when the system-wide dark mode was enabled)
I get the feeling Microsoft often starts modernization projects and abandons them halfway through. That’s why we still have the modern and the classic control panel. Even their web apps have this problem - there is an old version of the Exchange administration panel and a new one. And it’s been like that for a decade.
They’re just piling new junk on top of old junk and it shows.
I once found a dialog that default searched for a:/ in a windows 98 style popup. Pretty sure it was early windows 10
Might just be tired but the twist at the end 100% got me lmao
I love the obligatory inclusiom of “I use Arch btw.”
#2 gave it away because you’d have to royally screw something up in Arch to get KDE to lag like that lol.
It might be minimalist but it’s not unperformant out of box.
The only time i had issues with KDE when i was using a PC with 384 MB RAM (plasma 4)
I wouldnt blame that on kde
I’m sitting here reading these comments as the low-end Dell laptop I just picked up for software testing is booting up and updating Windows. For logistic reasons, had to pick one up today, so had the pleasure of dealing with Best Buy sales staff 🙄
From powering it up, it’s been 1.5 hours with updates and multiple restarts. Half of it was spent showing a progress indicator with a carousel slideshow of all the great AI tools I have no interest in using. Then it insisted on signing in with a Microsoft cloud account.
It’s been eons since I actually ran a fresh copy of Windows. Amazed people still put up with all this nonsense.
Seriously, dealing with Windows OOBE is like walking through a used car lot.
“Decline offer” “Decline offer” “Not right now” <hey, we need to update! See you in 30 minutes!> “Remind me in three days” “Turn off cloud backup” “Yes, I’m really sure” “Decline offer” “Share minimum telemetry” (oh, you thought you could turn that off? Lol. Lmao, even)
I don’t know how anyone finds that mess easier than linux.
You made it sound easy. The “share minimum telemetry” step requires you to click 6 different toggles and then an accept button. It’s even worse in win10, where you have to select the correct 6 checkboxes out of 12, and some of them are half hidden because they don’t fit in the screen at VGA resolution. The Windows OOBE comes straight from hell, as a punishment to humanity for making sand think.
It’s not easier than Windows, it’s the devil you know.
Sure it’s slow, but you know how slow. It does updates at the wrong time, but you know it will turn on again eventually. It sends all your data to Microsoft, but no-one has come to your door to harass you because what’s in your data.
Linux is some obscure thing that would take time and effort to learn, and you’re tired from work and just want to use a computer without thinking about it.
Things might be different if Windows wasn’t the default/only option when buying a new laptop.
The best buy sales staff are interesting because they practically make you beg for the thing you already had your mind made up about when you walked in the store.
Man that subreddit is a trip. Really funny to actively hate FOSS on ideological grounds because you just love corporations and markets so much.
There’s one here on Lemmy too. I got banned this morning for sharing this post lol.
Here’s a post from it defending Telemetry of all things.
Man that madthumbs guy is really trying to make that a thing and it’s kind of sad and lonely that he’s off by himself pretending he has a community…
Yeah I was just about to edit my comment to mention that. Like bro why are you here it’s built on the same ethos you hate in linux.
Then why do people pretend that being ‘downvoted to hell’ means anything here? Why would they point and say ‘echo chamber’ hypocritically?
The truth is that Reddit is shady AF with their shadow bans, control of information, inconsistent rule following, etc. I’m actually trying to get more users here.
I tried on Gab. -What happens when I correct someone on Gab about Linux? -They upvote and thank me for it! A community there for “Linux sucks” served no purpose.
edit: I’m also against religion (worse cult) and didn’t want to support the owner’s evangelism. -But the site is ran pretty decent, and it’s not bad when curated (another shady thing about Reddit is the limitation on blocking users).
I’ve seen a few of your posts on Linuxsucks@lemmy.world. I can appreciate a minority view and you don’t strike me as hostile with other users, but many of the points you made frankly make little sense to me. Some even stike me as deranged or at least misinformed. I hope you are doing this out of passion or get some other form of genuine joy out of it. I’d hate for Linux to make
youanyone feel miserable.Replace reddit with Microsoft and you might get why people think you’re crazy.
So do you like make all these linux hate memes yourself, or are you sourcing them from various linux hate communities?
Please please please don’t brigade/harass that community!
I love it! It’s like watching flat earthers. I NEED this popcorn.
I’m not quite sure it’s a “community” as such - it looks like just one guy having a bit of a nervous breakdown on his own.
It’s been going on for a year or two now. Is it still considered a breakdown if it shows no signs of slowing?
That’s a very good point. That’s a long time for someone to be that upset/ angry about something.
Is there an origin story?
🍿
Lol it’s an LLM post too
Lol the guy talks about linux like it’s his job or special interest.
You got banned for breaking the rules. Integrity isn’t common among evangelists.
There he is! Evangelism, sure. Idk man you got some weird shit going on, but you do you. 👍
If you point out any where I’m wrong, I will correct it. So far, none of the LiGNUxers are. AFAICS they work for Microsoft. It’s like when I was into conspiracy theories and wondered why Alex Jones wasn’t easily recognized for the controlled opposition, he is.
Oh my god not the rules!
Imagine correcting me on anything. Everyone criticizing the community has the opportunity and NEVER does. Maybe because I’m right and not deceiving people and turning them into hardened Microsoft fans.
Everyone criticizing the community has the opportunity
That’s a lie. The community and every post on it was locked for several months.
If you continue wasting your opportunity here, I’ll just block you here too. I’m not into wasting time.
I’ll just block you here too.
Oh no, don’t threaten him with a good time.
It makes more sense if you see capitalism as a game and these folks as gamer fanbois.
Really funny to actively hate FOSS on ideological grounds because you just love corporations and markets so much.
Yeah, especially when there are so many legitimate ideological grounds you could use to hate on FOSS, like: https://cosocial.ca/@mhoye/116851056980506739
It’s precisely the reason why many other licenses exists, and that are used for those who want to offer OSS as a service. It is still open, but the service is sold as a guarantee.
But never mind that. Because when you look at stuff like Microslop, Apple, and pretty much any other commercial proprietary software developer. They do so the same way. Games are not sold, they are licensed, with no guarantees of functionality either, just to put one example. It’s a mar of software as an industry, not exclusive to FOSS and definitely not created by the ideological underpinnings of FOSS.
Like, MS offers guarantees of quality and offer liability on their ToS for corporate contracts, but not for the version people can acquire for their home PC. Even then, the liabilities are very limited and cautiously defined. Essentially, unless MS is doing IT directly for your company, you are on your fucking own. And then, support channels for corporate service are very limited on what they do and do not offer. The average Joe buying a Mac or any other PC with Windows essentially get the same “software is provided ‘as is’ and we don’t care if it doesn’t work." It’s not associated to FOSS exclusively.
“love corporations”
How about I despise communism and how it only works when workers are forced to work at gunpoint. Or, I haven’t seen any legit gripes against Microsoft.
Politically, I’m centrist, because both pure extremes fail. -China isn’t 100% communist.
Linux takes the position of ‘competition’ for Windows while being an eternal loser. They squash other great projects by taking their ideas and making them work with then objectively shitty (for desktop) kernel.
Linux is a ‘best case scenario’ for Windows. (Yeah, you’re actually helping Microsoft by being an evangelist).
I’m sceptical this is genuine… it sounds like cope to me, but it’s interesting… Anyway, I appreciate my experience isn’t universal. So what Linux alternatives do you mean, like BSD and stuff?
I try to keep an open mind about people preferring the Microsoft stack, but from the first time I used a terminal on Linux I was sold. I could never go back.
I still do support for people who use Windows PCs, so I’ve got to see how it’s changed over the years. Personally I don’t know how anyone puts up with it.
It seems like Windows keeps getting worse as Linux keeps getting better… like… do you enjoy using Windows 11? Does it feel good to you?
11 is fine. I don’t miss XP, 7,or 10 at all. 11 is an upgrade.
Now it’s pretty obvious that you’re either a true madman or trolling so hard you forgot you’re doing it in the first place.
Win 11 is objectively so much worse than literally any alternative, and I’m saying that while running it myself for …reasons.
Man even I miss XP. But yeah I guess anything is better than 10 lol.
Went to an old school LAN party recently where one of the machines was running XP (and a CRT 🤤) and I forgot what a tight shell that was. Played Quake 2, Star Craft, Total Annihilation — no problems.
I still prefer the a la carte approach of linux, but I have a much higher tolerance for tinkering than my windows buds. I love having my fingers in every part of the machine.
Communism literally never had a chance to evolve as a system because USA systematically fucked it over and fought it at every step, in the process committing horrific crimes against humanity along the way. Would you like some historical examples of what capitalism has done to humanity and democracy worldwide for centuries or are you just more of a “see the thing with communism is… It just doesn’t work!” kind of guy?
Please read what I wrote again. I’m not about arguing with someone who glazes.
I rarely ever feel the need to comment, but going down the rabbit hole of reading your comments, posts, and history of the /c/ you moderate, I must say, you are either one of the most dedicated trolls on the internet or one of the most mentally ill person on the internet.
The level of vitriol you spew in your absolutely deranged, completely misinformed, straight up false posts is astonishing, like if I didn’t think you were mentally ill, I could have suggested that you should teach a rage baiting class, but for now, I suggest you seek help for your mental health. From a licensed professional, not the Windows trouble shooting tool.
I love this copypasta, I love my linux, I hate my windows. But let’s be honest with ourselves for a second and completely ignore the punchline of this meme.
Those ARE valid criticisms of linux distros. Arch is not for casuals so you should be aware what you’re getting into before stepping in, however your everyday-consumer-facing distros like Mint are still far from providing a fully comfortable day to day experience.
Again, I love my Mint, I’m never going back to windows, I’m a technical person and I had to use AI to help me run my nonograms game without it injecting cocaine into my CPU.
Mint was providing a comfy day to day experience 15 years ago. I never can figure out why everyone says it’s so hard.
I’d wager it’s due to the user’s catalogue of knowledge being effectively reset, even the deepest of users of windows has years of working around the (many) issues. Swap to a new OS, the knowledge doesn’t always transfer.
It’s not hard, it’s just different.
Hardcore users are already on linux. Casual users are only left on windows.
The performance comments were a dead giveaway.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
It may not run much of anything until you sort out your drivers properly, but it will do everything incorrectly LIGHTNING fast, compared to Windows.
I thought Debian was as sluggish as Windows until I was forced to use the LXQt desktop environment instead of the default GNOME on an old Compaq laptop since that’s all it could handle. Turns out, GNOME looks nice but it kept my old laptop’s mid-2000s i386 CPU churning at 50% 24/7. LXQt? Barely a blip. Sure, it couldn’t run Firefox quickly, but at least its fan was silent when idling or when I was simply using the laptop as a dumb SSH client into a much more powerful remote server.
I now use LXQt on my main workstation because I don’t need fancy tilíng windows or Wayland.
Nobody’s complaints with setting Linux up are that it runs slowly.
I mean, really depends on the device. I’ve got a machine running Mint and it kinda chugs along. But it’s… I want to say at least 15 years old? Probably due for a RAM swap at the very least. Takes about five minutes to fully boot and if I run more than a few apps it drags.
At some point, there’s only so much an OS can do for you.
The bit about incompatible drivers and the mess of third-party installs necessary to get it in a comfortable state also rang true. Plus all the minutea of configuration, so you’re not typing in your password every time you sneeze. Windows does tend to come fully loaded out of the box, even if you’re using a bunch of their mediocre native apps. And the desktop instance tends to be pre-configured to satisfy your average desktop user.
Of course, Apple takes all of this to the next level. Really straight jacking everything you can do so that it’s a unform experience from device to device. And I hate that shit, too, even if my machine boots fast straight out of the box.
Not true. They complain because of no hardware decoding, defaults lacking GPU acceleration, they complain about KDEs file manager, Gimp, Libre Office, etc. If you had problems with Windows, maybe consider ‘skill issue’.
Tldr I use Arch btw
Between what?
The most obvious bait to be was 1 hour install time. Windows 11 took 2 hours to install, CachyOS took like 5 minutes. I imagine Arch is similar, there is simply no way. Lol
They added a feature to archinstall that times your install and tells you how much it took. My record is 3 minutes, and it wasn’t even on a super powerful gaming computer or anything (it was a lenovo ideapad 5 laptop)
The biggest fucking lie
Updating. Do not turn of computer.
100% complete
Also: “Update and shut down”
Did you say “update and shutdown while also rebooting?”
Coming back to my PC and it being on when I expect it off, along with the notification that I hadn’t used notifications in a while, is what pushed me over the edge to running linux for everything.
This right here is exclusively why I had a scheduled event on my windows system, where if the computer was still on at 4 in the morning, it would turn itself off.
I never had this issue prior to Windows 10, but update and shutdown felt like an update and maybe shut down because there was a good 20 or 30% chance that when it rebooted to apply the changes, it didn’t turn itself back off again.
I must have had rotten luck because whenever I updated Windows, it would never shut down for me. Eventually, I just stopped using ‘update and shut down’.
Yeah, I had more issues with Windows deciding to shut down without updating than having it not shut down after updating.
Like that would drive me crazy to have checked for updates, have it say your updates are ready to install, press the reboot now button, and it decides that for whatever reason it didn’t want to install the pending updates.
That’s apparently fixed now. I have to use windows for work and they finally fixed that stupid issue in one of the last couple of updates. It’s still extremely painful to use though.
Everytime I setup a fresh install for whatever reason, I am reminded about how terrible the experience is😂
Solidworks/PDM at work. 🙄
No it won’t be changing until Win11 actually breaks or dassault scraps PDM(actually as much or more of a trashfire as windows). I’ll just find a new career eventually.
It took me a bit to figure out, but winapps might work for you. A couple of applications I use at work require me to have a windows VM, which is still way less of a headache than straight windows.
Thanks for looking out but sadly it’s a company owned laptop administered by IT.
On my work laptop I boot to Aurora Linux from an USBC caddy with an M2 SSD inside. The laptop’s internal drive is still factory fresh.
Ask your IT guy, he might be cool with that. The laptop itself is unchanged. Windows OEM license untouched.
I use win only at work anymore, no choice. Update and shut down is the biggest fucking lie. I press it every time, it never did shut down.
Every. Time.
“…in geological terms.”
I remember installing Arch on an ancient MacBook I’ve got. Set the installer going then put it to one side knowing it was going to take a while.
It took about 7 minutes.
Of course, I then spent two hours trying to get the fucking Broadcom drivers to work, but that’s by the by.
Sounds like me with my eee-PC going through a good chunk of troubleshooting just to find out the reason why Wi-Fi drivers aren’t working is because it’s a 32-bit system and the arch project as a whole decommissioned 32-bit.
They have a dedicated 32-bit system branch, but still wifi driver support on it sucks.
No offense, but what are you installing it on? One of the things I oversee at my job is imaging. Installing fresh windows on any of our hardware is between 7 and 15 minutes total. Since windows 10 I also haven’t seen any need for additional drivers either unless you have something uncommon or want to replace one. Not trying to defend Windows, I just can’t understand how everyone always has the worst problems imaginable with it.
Admitting that works, then you’ve only got windows. You still have to install all the tools and productivity software. On any distribution, all that stuff gets installed as a matter of fact, and you’re basically done after 20 minutes or so.
In the case I’m referencing, I was installing Windows 11 for a five year old gaming computer using the Windows 10 upgrade software, no USB or anything like that.
Technically I was going to use a custom USB made with Rufus to remove copilot, but by the time I got there they had already started the upgrade process. It really did take two hours, including the 15 minutes before I got there.
The vast majority of computer users with those kinds of issues are
- probably using windows home
- On a big box store computer with a platter drive
- an i3 cpu
- and 8gb of ram
windows 10 couldn’t reliably run it’s own bundled software (Mail), by itself, with nothing else open, without that one app going “not responding” every few minutes on a computer with those specs.
Last time i checked, Walmart, best buy, costco, etc were still selling those specs with win11 which is notably bulkier and slower than 10, especially without an ssd, so things have only gotten worse for the average non-power-user.
That’s a perfectly servicible spec for basic operations on a mint install, you could probably even watch netflix or youtube on it with linux, but i wouldn’t want to run windows newer than xp on it.
It doesn’t help that big box retail stores are scam artists.
That was one of the things I hated about Walmart was they would sell these super cheap systems that I kid you not would crash on the demo software.
Like we had an HP flip-style laptop that they sold for $130 a few years back. And it was so bad that we intentionally ran it under a default account instead of a demo account. Because if we installed the demo software on it, Windows would run out of space and blue screen about time windows tried to update it.
I recently figured out that Windows installs can go way faster if you have a slightly better USB stick. I bought an Intenso High Speed Line 64 GB for 10.90€ and it cut down the time by half or even two thirds I would say.
Of course I try to avoid installing Windows in the first place, but I’m not just working on my own machines.
Sure, and Internet speeds probably matter a bit too. The download part was a bit faster than I remember, but then it hung up on the later parts for a while. Lol
Windows 11 took me 7 hours over 3 different days. Had to start and stop multiple times, had to retry multiple times, had to post support requests and wait, and to dive into bios because default settings that worked fine with Linux were making windows kill itself.
Oh yeah, my first try was downloading a Windows ISO and using KDE writer to put it on a USB, BIG mistake because we all know that windows sabotages their ISOs so that you can only burn them with a windows burner program.
Even when it finally worked, it still took a goddamn 2 hours and so many ads, so many “please also buy this!”
Once it was done I had setup windows with steam for my step son and then he didn’t use the machine anyway
Arch install time is mostly user dependent Id say
Lots of options and you’ll need to spend some time RTFM. But if you already know how you want to partition your disks, then the basic installation (with a network controller!) takes about two minutes.
Then you can restart into the cli, and the real questions - what else am I going to install? - can begin.
That was exactly where I was like, “huh”? Cause Cachy took hardly any time to install and windows is notoriously slow.
I mean if you dont know jack shit about linux or arch and try to follow the guide I’d imagine it could take you quite a while. It took me a while at least.
I did hear Arch is a bit more trouble, yeah. CachyOS was pretty straightforward from desktop environment to automatically detecting hardware and such. Pretty much the same features you see with Windows, just a lot faster.
