• TheDoctor [they/them]@hexbear.net
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    3 months ago

    Someone literally made this argument to me yesterday. I asked how continuing to arm Israel helped stop the genocide of Palestinians and they started talking about American national interests and how if we don’t arm Israel someone else will. No mention of Palestine in their answer whatsoever. Shit was just gross.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      I’ve definitely run into that argument before.

      It assumes an inherent strategic value to Israel that applies universally and misses how Israel is uniquely beneficial to US interests.

      It’s not like China needs Israel, with the belt-and-road it is opening relations with literally the entire middle east and not just the white settler colony. Russia already has close allies in the region that would oppose allying with Israel. The EU could try to replace the US as the main backer, and it has a material interest in doing so, but they just don’t have the military capacity to pull it off.

    • sweatersocialist [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 months ago

      i hate those sorts of interactions because the other person quite literally said nothing yet they walk away feeling like they “won” or like they “had the correct take”, i can 100% guarantee it

    • sweatersocialist [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 months ago

      as a non-white person i’m giving you the pass and some advice to stop falling for liberal bullshit. basically- no, making a joke about some absolutely unhinged bullshit this freak said is not rooted in racism or sexism. you don’t need to twist yourself up trying to figure out how it is because some lib planted the idea in your head and as an empathetic person you actually considered their point of view.

      • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        I’m trying to get on as many shit lists as possible. Really get up against that wall, you know?

          • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            No, more like badly executed self-deprecating humor. I stand by what was deleted. I think accelerationism is like throwing matches at your furniture and yelling “Shazam!” in hopes that it summons a genie instead of burning you to death.

            • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              3 months ago

              Accelerationism is when people with no power refuse to condone genocide with you, got it

              If you have a problem with accelerationism, why not take it up with the people-shaped things of the ruling class who actually have their collective foot on the accelerator? contextphobicbrandonporky-happy

          • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            I swear, bro, it’s okay if we kill you, it’s different for us. We read these books that said it was okay for us, those other auths’ books are wrong and they need the bullet. If we just kill a few more people for the right reasons, it’ll totally be okay.

            • TC_209 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              3 months ago

              conditional_soup’s position on killing the guards, commanders and executioners of Nazi concentration camps: “No, you can’t do that, it makes you just as bad as them! You have to debate them in the marketplace of ideas while they exterminate millions of Jews, queers and other ‘undesirables.’”

              • GlueBear [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                3 months ago

                It’s literally comic book logic. Also no one who holds this belief does so sincerely. Ask them about homeless people, addicts and tweakers, and terrorists and what the state is justified in doing.

                Many of these people will absolutely defend Nazis but condemn a victim of addiction to brutality and death.

                • TC_209 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  1,000%. Liberals will say they abhor all violence, but then turn blind eyes to the violence that is necessary to maintain our (relatively) safe and comfortable lives in the imperial core. But when the oppressed commit violence against their oppressors, or a powerful force commits violence in behalf of the oppressed, suddenly liberals are shocked and aghast at the brutality of it all!

              • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                TC_209’s position on killing Nazis accidentally didn’t align with the party’s. They are put against the wall by a young officer who didn’t pay attention when they read theory in school.

                • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  Has anyone ever been executed for not executing people? Iirc even the nazis didn’t do that. Their einzastzgroupen troops were developing ptsd from killing Jews which is why they invented the gas chambers. You are arguing about complete and utterly nonexistent things.

              • conditional_soup@lemm.ee
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                3 months ago

                I think that arguing about justification is a moot point. Anyone can justify anything if they want to, and that goes twice for states. That’s without wading into the quagmire on the question of terrorism, largely for sanity’s sake. Generally, I think it is always correct to resist a state whose objectives include mass murder.

                • GlueBear [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  3 months ago

                  Is that a yes or a no? You either believe that states have the right to kill people they deem terrorists (whether that’s in good faith or bad is irrelevant) or they don’t have that right period.

                  There is no in-between; if you can’t answer the question or dance around it then what you’ve told everyone is that even you don’t believe in your own logic