• mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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    3 months ago

    Let’s take all that “You can’t POSSIBLY vote for GENOCIDE-adjacent person even if the alternative is LITERALLY A HUNDRED TIMES WORSE INCLUDING LOTS MORE GENOCIDE” energy

    And apply it to “You can’t POSSIBLY sit around typing on the internet while the world is falling apart, let’s get involved in direct activism to make the US a better place instead of hoping that voting is enough which it definitely isn’t”

    While also, yes, voting for “not the end of the world”

    • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      But if they cosplay as a leftist IRL then their social groups, redcaps all, might see them and ostracize them.

    • Sootius@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Hey, Trump was already president for four years, and didn’t do this despite the exact same scaremongering back then. His actions in office were practically identical to Biden’s now.

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    We need to protect our democracy, as the ability to freely choose between policies is fundamental to the perpetuation of a liberal society.

    On that note, you have exactly one viable choice to make and it will - at absolute best - kick the can down the road for two years. At that point, you will once again be told we need to protect democracy.

    • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Maybe if you did some collective action between events instead of waiting two years for the polls to open and then complaining that FPTP is still giving you only two choices.

      • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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        2 months ago

        Love this comment! As i commented elsewhere, get outside and make ur local politicians uncomfortable until they pass Rqnked Choice. Plenty of state level measures going around right now, no waiting necessary!

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Maybe if you did some collective action

        That would be crazy if I was doing that regularly.

        I’ll say, five minutes at the Houston Food Bank feels infinitely more productive than an hour waiting for access to the one functional voting machine in my district

    • IceFoxX@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      What is the problem with Biden? As a non-American, I only notice how regularly Republicans block everything from the Democrats no matter how big the damage is and somehow the population embarrasses the Democrats for it or specifically biden… i.e. the same action against biden as from republicans or trump and that from the beginning. Why was Biden elected in the first place if both Republicans and Democrats use this to destroy democracy?

      On the subject of genocide… Republicans and Democrats would apparently also be happier if the genocide took place against Israel, then increasingly against Ukraine and against the West. So that democracy in the West is destroyed further and further, especially by the fragmentation of their own shitty population.

      • whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 months ago

        You have no understanding… Republicans and Democrats both support Israel. You’re clearly very ignorant and I have no idea why you’re being upvoted for this nonsense ahh comment

        • IceFoxX@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          When I talk about Republicans and Democrats, I am talking about the population and not just the politicians who represent them. Within the population there are protests etc. that further contribute to destabilization from both sides.

            • IceFoxX@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Well your first post you called me instantly ignorant now comparing with trump… while you ignoring what I wrote first “As a non-American, I only notice” while you ignoring stuff like the campus protest or the whole destabilization etc. But yea call me ignorant…

              • whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                2 months ago

                Yes, you admitted to your ignorance and kept yapping.

                Trump literally said both sides caused deaths at Charlottesville even though it was the white supremacists who were the sole cause of violence. You are ignorant.

                • IceFoxX@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  You are ignorant even on the 2nd repetition to ignore the fact that I reflect the point of view as a non-American (I never said I was familiar with the political system itself, but I can give my view of what my impression of America is.) . Even better you just absolve Republicans and Democrats of racism which apparently doesn’t exist in your opinion… awesome you just solved the racism problem you genius there is simply no racism in Republicans and Democrats… so simple damn.

      • chuckleslord@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yeah, it’s a negative framing, but it is true as well. By being held to ransom, our options have effectively been reduced to one. That’s why you gotta do the work locally and advocate the need to break apart this system before it breaks us all.

  • Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Then afterwords we pass electoral reform right?

    so people can vote for the candidate that best represents them, with no spoiler effect because their vote is still counted against the republicans. Democrats believe in democracy right?

    • Slowy@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      The liberal party in Canada campaigned on election reform and then when they got elected said ah actually nah that doesn’t really benefit us sorry

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Then afterwords we pass electoral reform right?

      You wanna guess which party has been amiable towards electoral reform and which has been hostile?

      • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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        2 months ago

        I’m guessing both are amiable to reforms that benefit them and oppose those that don’t.

        Allowing reforms which would ditch the two uarty system would hurt both parties. That’s why it will never be implemented by any of them.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          That’s why it will never be implemented by any of them.

          Yeah that’s why RCV hasn’t seen any progress anywhere in the US recently. /s

        • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Given that both parties are now facing 3rd (4th?) party challenges, it might actually be in their interest to pass RCV. In the short term, it would reduce the spoiler effect, even if has a long term risk of undermining the duopoly.

    • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Electoral reform has to happen at the state level, and it’s most likely to happen in extreme Democrat strongholds. So yes, if enough people vote Democrat, eventually electoral reform.

      Trust me, Republicans are not interested in electoral reform, except maybe to outlaw elections.

      • Sootius@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Thinking the Democrats (or Republicans) are interested in passing any meaningful electoral reform is pure delusion.

    • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      I don’t trust Dems to believe in meaningful voting choice. I only reluctantly vote for them because they haven’t fully embraced fascism.

      People need to organize in large numbers for electoral reform to make it happen. It is not going to happen if we don’t agitate for it.

    • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Can’t electoral reform be passed on a state level in the US? I know shit about the US but I heard someone mention that.

    • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      I mean almost every implementation of it thus far has been by dems so yes actually that is well within the realm of possibility.

    • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
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      2 months ago

      We can do this on the state level! Many states currently have measures establishing ranked choice voting that all of us would do well to pressure our state officials to pass. Id love to see protesters camping out in front of state congresspeoples houses with signs about their local measure. No need to wait until after the election!

      But yes thatd be excellent after November, as well

  • Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I get the feeling most of the critics to this post don’t actually live in the US. When it’s you, your family and your friends in danger of being shipped off to the death camps, no amount of philosophical masturbation matters in comparison.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      I’m trans and live in the US, I just also have an actual spine.

      The way people talk about Palestinians today is the way they’ll talk about trans people tomorrow. Based on the logic of lesser-evilism, if the next election comes down to a democrat who wants to genocide trans people, and a republican who wants to genocide trans people and some other group(s), then you’ll deploy the exact same arguments about supporting “lesser genocide.” No one is safe once we accept this logic, at that point it’s all about trying to shift to target onto another group’s back to protect yourself.

      Solidarity isn’t just about doing the right thing, it’s a practical survival strategy. It’s about different groups banding together and recognizing that an attack on one is an attack on all, and that no amount of genocide towards any group is acceptable.

      • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        How are you blind to the fact that Republicans currently want to genocide trans folk…

        • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Because they’re delusional. There are some love letters to China in their history. I guess genocide is fine if it’s against Uighurs, huh?

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            objection

            I guess genocide is fine if it’s against Uighurs, huh?

            Do you have any evidence to support this testimony?

            • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              Get a clue, buddy. “I’m trans and Biden bad, China good.” So you do support genocide.

              The weird part is you think having Donald win will turn the US into communism instead of a capitalist authoritarian hellscape. Or, I suppose you think that will topple America so that “Socialism with Chinese characteristics” can expand across the world?

              Protip, genius: the “Chinese characteristics” are capitalism. They still have billionaires.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                2 months ago

                So you do support genocide.

                objection

                Do you have any evidence to support this testimony?

                The weird part is you think having Donald win will turn the US into communism

                objection

                I oppose Donald Trump for the exact same reasons I’ve stated for opposing Joe Biden… because he supports genocide!

                Protip, genius: the “Chinese characteristics” are capitalism. They still have billionaires.

                Hold it!

                Are you saying that you consider Deng’s market reforms to be a right-wing deviation, and that you support hard-line Maoism?

            • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              How many Native Americans had The USA killed? Because they are still regulated to Reservations and have no real Representation in Congress to this day.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          objection

          I’m not “blind” to that at all! I’m fully aware of it!

          I’d rather die as someone who opposed genocide, than live as someone who didn’t phoenix-objection-1phoenix-objection-2

          In the long run, if minority groups are being picked off one by one, and Democrats keep following Republicans to the right, then… it’s inevitable that we’ll be targeted sooner or later!

          No one who supports genocide for political expediency will ever have my back! How could it be politically advantageous to stick their neck out for such a small minority? There’s only one way: if different minorities band together and treat an attack on one as an attack on all!

          And that means zero tolerance for genocide!

          • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            Being Complicit with the Genocide of Transfolks IS NOT having Zero Tolerance for Genocide

            Furthermore, Its a hell of alot harder for minorities to band together when they are actively being genocided. Voting for the lesser of two evils allows for that Solidarity to form and expand. Voting will never directly bring about Socialism in America, but voting can give the working class time for Class Conciousness to form that will inevitably lead to that outcome.

            Voting IS NOT a purity test, it is a dirty tool that must be used until other tools can be put in place to allow the workers to seize the means of production.

      • Rakonat@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Biden’s lack of action on Israel’s brutal campaign in Palestine is not something I support. And if the public could pressure him to cutting aid and assistance to Israel until they cease and start providing actual care for those displaced and not tent cities I’d be the first in line to support that action.

        But allowing the other guy who actually establish actual concentration camps on the border to illegally detain and abuse refugees that fled hundreds of miles for a chance at a better and honest life is totally unacceptable. All the terrible and worst thing Biden had done in office, and there has definitely been a few, amount to nothing that trump did in a typical week. And that was before he really pursued ideas of being a full authoritarian dictator out to wipe his ass with the constitution and make sure he ruled for life. Trump got more people killed during Covid than Israel’s attempt at genocide. So no, its not disingenuous to say Trunp is dangerous for everybody if he somehow gets back into office and instead of a prison cell where he belongs.