Okay, what the fuck is up with the rape apologetics and anti-bodily autonomy chubs in these comments?
It’s funny that one instance of child rape apologia creates so much more in these comments. There are some real debate lords(/trolls) out here making arguments that would be immediately tossed if faced with a child victim in real life.
We also shouldn’t have to rely on these cases to protect a woman’s inherent right to her body.
I can only guess what the context here is but to imply that “they’re fine with kids getting raped” is almost definitely an extremely dishonest strawman of what they’re actually trying to say. This type of bad-faith dunking on people you disagree with only makes them dig down their heels even deeper and, I’d argue, is only making things worse.
If I had to steelman their position without knowing full context, I’m assuming that what they’re trying to say is that abortion shouldn’t be legal just because of the comparatively small number of cases where it perhaps would be justified (incest/rape) because it opens the door to a huge number of what they see as unecessary abortions.
If one truly cares about changing minds rather than scoring worthless internet points then you need to take down the foundations - not break the windows. Breaking windows is fun and easy but it doesn’t achieve anything. Listen to what people are saying and challenge their core beliefs.
But even when steelmaning the argument, they deserve to be called out on not even considering a middle ground where 10 year old rape victims are not allowed an abortion. Because “opening up doors” is a too big a cost for them.
I agree to a certain degree, that twisting someone’s pretty shitty argument isn’t helping the discourse. So my response isn’t really directed at you.
Steelmanning an argument doesn’t make it immune to refutation. It just means you’re refuting the strongest possible version. In this case, the argument is so inherently fucked up that even the steelman version is still a “what the fuck?”
If I had to steelman their argument I’d wonder if they are properly informed about the very real, well documented physical risks to children from getting pregnant and carrying to term. Death is one option, but long term physical disability due to spinal and hip fractures aren’t unheard of. As well as a long list of other physical and psychological effects I’m not gonna put here.
So what I’m gathering is that this person is either very, VERY uneducated about the physical consequences of childbirth, both for adults and children, and just how frequently children are sexually assaulted.
Either they’re very ignorant, possibly willfully, or they are straight up a troll. Poe’s law makes it increasingly difficult to tell these days. Ignorance can be a temporary state of being, but would they care about medical data? Who knows.
I think the point here is that they’re willing to “sacrifice” a few 10-year-olds if it means saving tens of thousands of other children aborted yearly for what they see as lesser reasons.
Though I don’t agree with their view, if a religious person genuinely believes that life begins at conception and sees no difference between ending the life of a 10-day-old embryo and a 10-year-old child - because they believe both lives are equally valuable - then I can’t entirely fault their reasoning. In this case, the issue lies with their false, unscientific religious beliefs, not necessarily their stance on abortion. If you truly believe that life starts at conception, being against abortion is a perfectly logical position to take.
Eh, not really. In a vacuum, sure, but if a 10-year-old becomes pregnant, then that life is surely suffering, and probably also in danger from the pregnancy. If the pregnancy were to go awry, that could end both lives. If the pregnancy went off without a hitch, then another life has been introduced into a place of suffering.
But the wellbeing of this particular 10-year-old or their child isn’t the point here. If someone believes that life begins at conception and that all life is sacred, then being anti-abortion is a perfectly logical stance. Otherwise, they’d effectively be okay with the act of murdering unwanted children.
A person with this belief might still acknowledge that there are situations where abortion could be justified. However, they may fear that allowing it, even in narrow cases, creates a slippery slope that could lead to thousands of unnecessary abortions.
Even ignorong all those risks there’s also simply not being into having children and wanting to live without them.
Why do I suspect that they would be okay with 30,000 10 year olds being forced to give birth to their fathers child to prevent 1 abortion?
(i hope) they are a troll, don’t engage
I hate to say this but babies being found in garbage bins is about to be a fairly regular occurrence.
In the age of DNA, it’s going to be dangerous to do that. We need more of the safe boxes at fire stations. Of course, we also need rights, abortions, contraception, and family planning to be widely available, too.
a person who throws a baby in the trash isn’t one who’s thinking clearly. it’s fear, panic and desperation. deterrents are not going to be a factor.
And we already have a problem with women who have wanted pregnancies having severe mental illness episodes.
If you don’t find the baby, no DNA. So much MUCH darker prospects…
It doesn’t even stop any other abortions though. It actually increases the number of abortions.
deleted by creator
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Pocket Reply, my bad.
Epstein didn’t kill himself, as evidenced by this mf
Who the fuck said we had to choose either? We can live in a world with neither, and that world requires women’s rights, including the right to abortion.
We can live in a world with neither
We can decrease the amount of evil in the world but we’ll never get rid of it entirely.
The real kicker is: no amount of 10yo parents is going to prevent abortions. We’ve been through this whole song and dance before. The abortions didn’t stop, just a lot more women died.
They want to go back to women dying from abortions, because they think women who get abortions are murderers who deserve to die. Until it’s someone they know and suddenly the reasons for the abortion matter and they’re the special exception.
Obligatory The Only Moral Abortion is my Abortion
They’re saying that an incestuous rape baby being born every year is a lesser evil than abortions being legal. They’re wrong, but insofar as they believe that, they’re not going to support a woman’s right to choose.
Who the fuck said we had to choose either?
They did, and pointing that out will (I’m guessing) be met with some form of covering their ears and saying “nah nah nah I can’t hear you.”
I’ve seen the sort. When confronted with the real-world results of their moralizing, they retreat to quoting cherry-picked Bible verses and posting pictures of fetuses (“look how human she looks!”).
Look how human she looks! Unknowingly points at pig fetus
“It was all part of god’s plan for you to have this [pig] baby!”
You know that episode of Futurama where Bender needs an update to be compatible with the new kind of robot, and he ends up living out a fantasy of escaping to an island of discarded robots where he lead an uprising?
There are people who need to be forced to live out their own personal Eraserhead.
Random question but I’m just wondering your position on this. Is the burden of proof on pro-choice or pro-life advocates when it comes to the humanity of a fetus? In other words, should abortion be legal until we can prove that a fetus is human or should it be illegal until we can prove it isn’t? Just genuinely curious.
nOt In My ChRiStIaN nAtIoN
A major problem with abortion on condition of rape is that it motivates false accusations.
It is an evil law supported by people who don’t care about male victims.
What percentage of cases would this even apply to?
Weird and fucking disturbing that you manage to make men out to be the victims here.
The vast majority of rape accusations are, in fact truthful. Like, fucking overwhelmingly so. But, who cares about the ‘females’ right?
Honestly, this is the kinda statement I’d expect from a rapist, simply due to the utterly vile lack of empathy for women.
And besides, who is gonna try make an accusation of rape, even when that is literally what happened, when there is no damn chance of a conviction in time to get the abortion.
You’re fucking weird
Edit: I’m just gonna go ahead and say it: I don’t believe this has ever, or will ever happen. Absolutely no man is getting accused of rape just so the women can get an abortion. Fucking zero. None.
And just how many abortions have been approved so far due to rape? I bet that’s also zero.
Disgusting. Just fucking completely disgusting. There’s are NO MALE VICTIMS TO ANTI ABORTION LAWS. Yeesh
Keep your incel shit to yourself. Fuck
About half of rape allegations reported to police are already false, defined as complainant saying there was no rape after proper police investigation/interrogation. Kanin and others replicated the studies.
Your over the top feminist supremacist hasbara that “only rapist incels can care about the much more violent victimization of men through police detention” should be self censored for obvious evil. Your BS not only directly encourages prosecuting the very high level of false claims made for vengence, attention, or responsibility avoidance, you foster a new policy category of a reward motivation.
Their point was that incentivising rape allegations as a means to permit an abortion will lead to a non-zero number of instances where false allegations will occur. This is correct. Men weren’t being victimized, and comparing this guy with a rapist is immature and downright disrespectful to victims of rape.
If you are ok with a few more instances of men being falsely accused of rape for the greater good of women, then your thinking is analogous to the person in the original post who was ok with 1 person being raped to stop the killing of thousands of unborn babies.
No. That is a bizarre assumption. No, an allegation is not sufficient for any of these backwards evil laws. And a conviction will never happen in time.
So, bullshit. This will not increase the number of false accusations, which, again, is a fucking tiny percentage.
Women are dying, in horrible agony. Loves are being ruined. And no, even if there was an increase in false accusations, which no there won’t be, but if there were?? I couldn’t care less.
The pathetic and disgusting desire to make this about men is inexcusable. Fuck that bullshit. And, btw, that asshole I replied to sounds like a psychotic fucking abuser. It’s true. So blow me if you don’t like it, I don’t fucking care.
The massive fucking amount of fear, pain, and death inflicted on women by this shit. If your honestly concerned about a complete fucking false danger to men? Go play a rousing game of hide and go fuck yourself.
Women are dying, in horrible agony.
The answer is no conditions for abortion. Not purely inconsiderate supremacist conditions as a compromise with those who’s vision of natalism is to punish every pregnancy, instead of making families an affordable option to pursue happiness. Conditional permissions and social aid, is a compromise among fascists.
You really invalidate your position when you state that you wouldn’t even care if more false accusations increase. You are making this a men vs. women issue which is it absolutely not. This tribalism is not only unproductive it’s destructive. I know plenty of informed women who are against abortion and plenty of informed men who favor it.
You have an awful lot of faith in humanity if you think any law won’t get weaponized for evil when possible. But I guess a man wrongfully going to jail for 10-20 years for rape isn’t evil in your eyes, or you have gaslight yourself into believing that men are never victims.
False accusations are, statistically speaking, completely insignificant. You clearly have no idea how stupidly small the percentage is.
Even so, a salary accusation just does compare to the damage caused to the women and children involved. So why the fuck would I care about men put in a situation where they might have to flee to another state or some shit.
Tribalism? What the fuck are you even on about?! I care about the increase in human suffering. Fuck your tribalism bullshit, I didn’t give a shit about the talking heads and echo chambers.
And these laws will be weaponized. And the suffering, pain, and death inflicted on the women and children… Honestly, your entire argument fucking disgusts me to the very core.
The bigotry in your arguments is astounding. Not to mention the hypothetical harm your defending is just utterly asinine. Even if there’s an increase, false accusations still won’t be statistically significant on any level. But, oh my god, think of the poor…manly men??? Fuck that entire idea is stupid
You have no basis for your claim of false rape accusations being statistically insignificant. Only 2-5% of rape cases result in a conviction, which is the only provable statistic that is relevant, which suggests that 95%+ of rape accusations are false (obviously the legal system isn’t 100% just, my point is you have no evidence or basis for your claim).
“I care about the increase in human suffering”. Like I said in my first reply, this is the same argument used in the original post, which everyone in this thread is shitting on. Take a good long look at your morals because they seem to be very extreme and unstable.
Do you have any evidence for that claim?
Fear of reprisal, not wanting to get the offender in trouble or a belief that law enforcement would not help matters prevented most victims of rape from reporting what happened to them, the federal report said.
What’s happening is that people who are experiencing rape are not being allowed to choose abortion,”
“Highly stigmatized life events are hard to measure. And many survivors of sexual violence do not want to disclose that they went through this incredibly stigmatizing traumatic life event,”
Even in states with exceptions for rape, very few people got an abortion—likely because of fear and intimidation, Dickman speculates.
Yeah, it seems to be quite the opposite if I’m reading this correctly. The only ones hurt by the exceptions are the victims themselves, as always.
Dickman speculates.
I would use a penname if it were my job to write about that kind of stuff…
Lamo that’s the real name
That’s pretty much what I expected.
Have some Lemmy Gold fellow egalitarian.
Who are they calling ghouls with thoughts like that
Got it.
You want to require 30,000 kids to be born to parents who don’t want them, just so you can force a 10-year-old victim to birth her rapist’s baby.
You want to require hundreds of loving mothers to endanger their lives by insisting that they continue to carry doomed pregnancies long after doctors have proven the fetus cannot survive and is in excruciating pain even before it is born. Why? So you can force a 10-year-old to bear her rapist’s child?
Go to hell, Kaya.
That’s the whole point. These people get off on human suffering.
They all want to ban abortions but they don’t want their tax dollars “wasted” on healthcare for the mother/child, on school lunch programs, on food banks, on welfare for struggling families or bear any responsibility at all for the wellbeing of the child after its born.
Seems to me they don’t care about the children at all in most cases.
All they care about is punishing “slutty leftist women” for having sex. They’re sure the laws will never negatively impact people they care about, just their enemies.
I mean, this one specifically cares that a child might not be forced to birth her father-rapist’s baby.
She seems to care quite a bit.
You missed an important bit. They want the ten year old raped and forced to carry their fathers child every year
I mean after a year the child is no longer 10, so at this point we are scarring a new child every year.
Here’s a fucked up article about study done in states with abortion restrictions. Around 64,000 babies born from SA in states with abortion restrictions. And somehow we’re the extremists for not wanting that, for wanting all women to have a choice.
Stop self-censorship. You can and should write what these fucks want to hide. Do not help them disguise these facts
Jesús Christ that’s so much more than I thought
SA?
Sexual Assault I assume.
It’s too bad you think your Invisible Friend in the Sky who created the infinitely complex universe only gave you those two extreme opposite alternatives to choose from.
For all the talk in the world that they prattle on about, statistics seem to be on the side of conservatives being pretty okay with child rape and marriage when compared to other groups.
There is no rape too vile that I will not accept it as the price of killing people by taking away their healthcare.
Maybe I should put quotes around that. Eh, I bet it won’t misused against me.
