I can’t fathom how anyone is against free healthcare. CHILDREN have to go without healthcare FFS CHILDREN. How can anyone justify that?
I don’t have kids so why should I pay for their healthcare
That’s how they justify it. They’re fucking ghouls
The problem is there’s a false scarcity. Healthcare is expensive for people in the US right now, so the idea of paying for someone else’s healthcare via universal healthcare doesn’t sound like a good thing, it sounds like taking the money you need for your healthcare to pay for someone else’s.
It’s NOT like that, but people have it in their heads that it is. And it’s very hard to change a made up mind when there are people rallying against it to protect their own private interests.
That’s no reason to not have universal healthcare.
Sure, some people think as you describe, but they are the minority. We’re supposed to be a representative democracy.
- 90% of Democrats want universal healthcare. (30% of voters)
- 70% of Independents want universal healthcare. (40% of voters)
- Even 40% of Republicans want universal healthcare. (30% of voters)
(many polls, pick your favorite)
bOtH pArTiEs think otherwise, unfortunately
Oh no I totally agree with you. Not saying it justifies it or even that the math makes sense, but it feels that a lot of times when you have people who dissent against universal healthcare the reason I stated is why.
They believe rights are a pie. And if someone else gets a piece of that pie, they will somehow end up with less pie.
Even within free market logic free healthcare just makes sense. It enables people to more comfortably quit their job to start a business or take any better job. It also allows people more freedom to choose medical professionals based on their merits rather than on who their insurer says they can use.
It’s also cheaper for everyone, and results in much better outcomes on average. It’s truly win/win/win.
The only losers would be the insurance companies that would no longer exist. And fuck them.
The stupid thing is that even this isn’t necessarily the case. Even in countries that have public healthcare, there are still private options for those who want “fancier” care. The true statement is that they would only be able to rip off the wealthy, instead of everyone in the country.
Even within free market logic free healthcare just makes sense.
It doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t maximize the short term profits of a health care business.
It enables people to more comfortably quit their job
No American capitalist wants this.
You can be hired. You can be fired. You can’t go around quitting without your boss’s permission.
That’s long term thinking you fool. How does that help my next quarter!? Think of my bonus!
I can’t fathom how anyone is against free healthcare
“We CaN’T aFfOrD iT! wE wIlL rUn OuT oF mOnEy!”
Every fucking time it’s suggested. Every fucking time, you get some clown screaming about how it costs too much and it will bankrupt the country and how health care will go away if you try to federalize it.
And under this government? Maybe they’re right. Maybe American business leadership would just rip the wires out of the walls anyways. Look at what UK politicians have done to the NHS, ffs.
It’s very possible that Americans don’t have access to health care because we are simply too greedy and cruel and stupid as a population to value it above carpet bombing the Global South.
Funny how there’s always money to bomb schools, on the other hand…
And to give to Elon Musk for him to lose. He went down from 1.45 trillion to 970 billion. Like what? Half a trillion dollars lost?
I don’t even use numbers like that in a fucking video game…
That’s the trading value of his companies that tanked though, not money spent.
He never had a trillion actual dollars.
“protect the children” mfs when children
Children can’t work. So they shouldn’t get any benefits actually.
The issue really seems to be old people. And where I live it’s a whole lot easier for old people to vote.
They dont care 🤷
Because to them, the fight against the Others is so profoundly tied to their core identity that they would choose a rapacious trillionaire or low rent pedophile mob boss to lead them despite OVERWHELMING evidence either would gladly see them dead for a nickel.
Anyone not of their inner circle (church, Trump worship, family of they accede to the previous conditions) are the enemy. And they don’t deserve even basic human rights. Unless they’re a zygote/fetus, in which case they get a pass until birth.
I’d watch US shows where sometimes people would get fired on the spot in in a dramatic way and thought it was just artistic license until I realized Americans literally have no protections and can be fired at will for no reason at all. It is horrifying. What’s even worse is that people celebrate this as a “fluid labor market” , as if placing people under chronic insecurity is a virtue.
I have coworkers from other countries who came to America and asked me if the contract they signed was true - that they can be fired at will.
It’s incredibly embarrassing.
USA! USA!! 💥
Greatest country in the world apparently.
It’s the bully who constantly has to tell everyone how great they are and acts like an asshole tworads everyone while they’re actually very mentally broken, scared, dumb etc.
I live in a third world country, and I get asked now and then if I’d ever move to the USA, and my answer is always
“No, if I’m going to move to a country it must be better than the one I am currently living in”
This show is feeling relevant every single day now.
He just conveniently left out the slavery and racisms part, but he ain’t wrong about current affairs
For billionaires, it seems.
And they say that American exceptionalism is a myth
Hang on. They said, “except Us,” so you’re supposed to drop that letter. The chant is now “SA! SA!!” 🇿🇦
I think it then should be just “A” then… Ay?
I wouldn’t call the US developed. There is development, with the sky scrapers, mega companies and billionaires, but there are also palaces built in South Africa, North Korea and Turkmenistan. North Korea and Turkmenistan have better infrastructure than the US. But I wouldn’t call insane poverty rates, insane inequality, autocracy, oligarchy, insane incarceration rates, corrupt government and legal system, institutionalized racism and still legal slavery any form of modern development.
Developed
Not civilised
Number one!
But I think the only and actual problem is education. The rest are just consequence. It’s not for nothing than when the rest of the world thinks about an american, they see a fat dumbass bigot idiot. I know a lot of people are not like that, but it does not matter. As a country, this is how everybody sees you.
And for once, fix the root cause of the problem, not the symptoms.
I’d argue even with education, your defacto two party system still prevents true change/progress. Not sure if better education would be enough to change this.
The two party system worked for a long time because both sides were committed to the idea that a functional government was a good thing.
A multiple party system didn’t save Germany from Fascists. When enough citizens decide their fellow citizens are the problem decent government becomes impossible.
I wouldn’t say it worked. It was barely good enough while being quiet bad. Switzerland took usa’s system and made it better, so much better. Anno 1848
well, at least people will be able to conceptualize this is a completely stupid system.
Right now they have the sport-fan mentality. Us vs Them, Me vs You, Good vs Bad. Baby view of the world.
(and it’s not my de-facto :) )
a UNIPARTY, the gop and dinos are a coalition. not even a true 2 party system. DInos are allowed to throw people a bone once in a while so they dont form an uprising or take over the party
Moron. Go educate yourself. You’re responsible for all the unnecessary evil and thousands of murders trump has brought upon this world.
I think the education is a symptom of a deeper problem still, and that is corporate entities owning significant parts of the governing process, through lobbying, campaign financing and a rotating door of government positions and coproate advisers.
They want an uneducated population, because that is how they get a greater and greater share of the say in what the government does each election cycle. Getting Citizens United through was one of the worst they accomplished in recent years, but it won’t end there.
Step 1: Reform the Supreme Court (term limits, mandatory retirement age of 65, etc). Step 1.5: Abolish Citizens United.
Oh yes, but I still think this is only possible because people are uneducated. Then, sure, it becomes a feedback loop. I have no idea how to fix USA and I think at that point it is beyond repair.
Hungary also did that under Orbán, but we were told once we will have enough “national billionaires”, the money will start to trickle down. When the billionaires arrived and we asked when the money will finally trickle down, we were told money is not everything, and we’re acting like “spoiled children”.
Honestly FOX News might be the organization, which helped the term “socialism” the most in the US. When you call every good policy “socialist” then people wanting that will call themself that.
It’s the abuse of the system, the tax hikes, the standard of care given vs the biased care we can exploit now and the amount of productivity lost is bad for the US. Why? Idfk, that’s just what they tell us.
So I guess the only thing we can do is try to cha ge at least one of them.
Remember Obamacare? The socialized healthcare system where everyone had health insurance? We should go back to that.
and the amount of productivity lost is bad for the US. Why? Idfk, that’s just what they tell us.
The US would not loose productivity at all. For any health care system it is cheaper to prevent somebody from getting sick, then to pay for the treatment. So countries with such systems have good reason to have strong environmental and food regulation for example. Hence people are less sick and can therefore work.
The US has pretty decent/good air quality compared to a lot of countries both developed and under developed. At least we don’t have to deal with what India, China or Brazil have to deal with when it comes to air quality. I mean it’s not the greatest there’s still people who live with air purifiers because of pollutants, toxins and generalized pollen but you can leave your house in every single state at any given time without choking or needing PPE.
Food could be better. Food here could be a lot better but you know what it is. It’s the sickening supply and demand. Think about it we get year round produce because we ship it in. There’s an Asian market that’s near me and a (half dead) stop and shop 2 blocks from it. The Asian market has in-season only produce and has an on site butcher. A lot of other countries I hear do the same as the Asian market and I still have no idea if it’s true but we have hydroponically grown food in the off-season.
The only areas in the US that actually rely on local produce are areas that have produce that they’re known for. Like Georgia Peaches, Maine Blueberries and Massachusetts/New York Mcintosh Apples and then those areas are all tourist and rely on tourism. The FDA Doesn’t give a fuck about our meat as much as we’d like to think, I mean our chicken wings can still have feathers and there’s known low quality butchers. Our beef supply is being cut like there’s no one even inspecting the fat vs lean meat ratio and everything that’s lean has a lower shelf life because its more, “fresh,” (after it’s been treated) and the odds of a grass-fed cut of meat smelling like fish is higher than a non grass-fed cut of meat which are usually starting to gray and those are unless you go to a good quality butcher BUT THEN you face a sourcing issue which they’re all known to get their meat from Costco or BJ’s.
Pork is absolute trash in this country, I’ve been trying to stay away from pork.
Nah, been going on probably before the banana republics. Soon as the people of the banana republic fought back, the American capitalist would cry socialism, then the American army would come and squash the uprising. Hey Mr. tally man tally me banana.
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Glad to see some political commentators catching on to this too.
And americans will tell you it’s because they are better or different.
Gotta fund the military somehow, mirite?
The “military power” reputation took a huge hit this year too. Really? That bs is why they forego all these benefits for their people?
But…but…hellfire missiles go brrrrrr?
I’m not even American, but what the fuck are you even talking about, no one’s saying that
Also not American. You don’t think there’s a perception that American is the greatest country in the West? It comes off thick with a lot of topics even discussed on the fediverse. A good clip that I enjoy watching every now and then https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk
Everyone knows about the American exceptionalism, but it exists despite these horrid humanitarian conditions, not because.
No one’s gonna say “yeah I’m happy with being forced to eat dirt, I’m superior to you, that’s why!”
I’m sure many Americans would crow about these more positive things if they could but think about those posts that unironically brag about how “X about to find out why Americans don’t have healthcare” while showing a picture of an airborne orphan crusher, or something.
It’s all part of their true grit machismo, like hell yeah most brutal capitalist hellscape imaginable, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. Honestly they revel in it.
It’s like Canadians and their cold winters.
You dont know this but some Americans are profoundly stupid. By some I mean more than any body can manage.
So just because you dont ride in those circles, dont think for a moment american exceptionalism isnt some sort of self defeating pride that will soon have my country on its knees.
You dont know this but some Americans are profoundly stupid.
Isn’t this the case basically everywhere? Is there a culture or country that doesn’t have profoundly stupid people in it?
I mean, we take it very seriously, though. There I go with american exceptionalism again.
There are plenty who don’t, but there are an unfortunately large number who do
They’re stupid, indoctrinated, uneducated etc. but they’re very real
I’ve had people from all over the world tell me that the US is the greatest country in the world,
They were all stupid, racist and had never been there
Lol.
We got fed so much propaganda about this country growing up. Basically North Korea Lite.
So you say, that the US has the purest capitalism while everyone else has diluted it with some soviet communism?
The corrupt gop fuckers will recreate the commie folk devil that worked during the cold war, they will claim communism will end America they will turn voting for social democracy into national crisis
They are always lying
I’m hoping Mamdani can help shift people’s perspectives here.
Americans also fall for it every time so that says a lot about the citizens
Americans, by and large, are, unfortunately, some of the dumbest humans to ever exist on this planet.
No doubt. Living here is to be surrounded by cynical monsters everywhere you go.
Obama made Healthcare companies more money than any President before him. He could have given us a public option but the big Democrat donors said no.
No, there are approximately 190 fully capitalist countries, stop whitewashing capitalism. Capitalist countries also include: Afghanistan, Burundi, South Sudan, DRC and India. Stop with this evolutionist nonsense.
Yeah because capitalism is just how things develop without excessive government intervention to prevent it. It’s a lie to say capitalism is a choice. I guess technically you could say it’s a choice between buying food from a farmer or starving to death, but really that’s not much of a choice. The two biggest famines in history were cause by socialist countries taking direct control of the agriculture industry.
By death toll, number one was the Qing dynasty, very much not communist. Number 2 was communist China. You have to go all the way to number 11 before you hit the USSR.
Europe doesn’t have socialism. This list is not even close to good. Europe is like, behind what I want. I want socialism. I want to nationalize big tech. Europe wants no part in nationalizing their tech. I don’t want mandatory PTO, I want a union and representation and a funded pension. I want publicly ran and funded groceries and hospitals, not just universal health insurance. I’m a former libertarian and I want these things btw. It’s not hard to convince a libertarian to be socialist. Europe is too capitalist for me.
Also ‘developed’ and ‘non-developed’ is modern colonial language. The original post reeks of liberalism. Not against you OP, I just hate looking to Europe for the future of America. America has fundamental issues that make it not really suited for european capitalism, but if the DSA has their way in the next decade or two we might have some good socialism in the US.
The modern use of the word Socialism means having significant publicly funded institutions. When people say they want socialism they mean they want more of it, because most likely they already have lots of publicly funded institutions - like police and fire protection, public libraries, unemployment compensation… What they want is more, and Europe has more than the US.
Developed and non-developed are economics terms for different degrees of industrialization and overall wealth. they’re not “colonial” language.
I agree and also would note that “developed” is the current, more sensitive term which specifically seeks to avoid unfair judgement in favor of a term that looks at metrics that measure general well being. You cannot tell me it’s racist to acknowledge and want to improve the quality of life for billions of people who needlessly suffer disease, death, and other miserable preventable (with resources/education) situations.
Socialism is impossible. It cannot exist with a species like ours that is hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.
At the end of the day, too many people will look at socialism and see "this is bullshit, why should insert marginalised/oppressed minority get that when insert marginalised/oppressed minority that person identifies with gets less. Or just happen to be staunchly opposed to a population protected by the socialist system.
It’s idealist. And I fucking hate capitalism. But at the end of the day the very best we can really hope for is capitalism with strong, firmly enforced and well thought out regulations.
We will get neither just so we are clear. But it’s the best possible type of system in my mind.
It cannot exist with a species like ours that is hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.
In general this is a myth, being a self interested economic agent is something we’re trained to conform to, not something we do instinctually. Which isn’t to say we are naturally suited for large scale cooperation, but what the Hobbesian perspective misses is that whatever behavior you’re assuming is human nature has a context, and that context could be made very different.
That’s a pretty interesting point and totally fair. I would like to think we would do better in a different context. My problem is the context for us I (mostly) believe to be inevitable.
You’ve convinced me. I will stop wanting socialism now. It can never happen. I accept the liberal order. Capitalism is a force of good. I will no longer vote for the democratic socialists. I will vote for the liberal establishment. I will be acting like a good citizen of western democracy. Yes this is good. Capitalism is the best humanity can do. It will never achieve anything better. If humanity were to exist for another 10,000 years, they will still be doing capitalism because we did it: We achieved the best we can ever do with capitalism and strong regulations.
You think idealism is bad, yet you believe “at the end of the day the very best we can really hope for is capitalism with strong, firmly enforced and well thought out regulations.”
That is idealism. Capitalism will continue to kill people in other countries while you vacation every summer. Capitalism is good for you so you want it to continue. I’m sorry, but I can’t live my life that way. You can, and good for you for that—I envy it. You need to learn that you have to pay more in taxes so people you don’t see every day don’t suffer. I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make it drink.
The best they ever have to offer is circular reasoning or no reasoning at all. Makes me wonder why they believe it.
Do they even realize when they’re mixing feelings (or ideals) with facts? 🤷♂️
Is this an invitation to share more of my reasoning on why I think socialism is impossible? Or was there a circular argument that you heard in what I said?
So if I’m understanding you correctly, a constrained capitalism is idealism (fair) and somehow the farther left side of that is more realistic (absurd)?
If anything you’re making my point for me.
You want to paint me as some defender of capitalism or accepting of it because of my creature comforts…fill your boots, you don’t know me. But at least get your logic in check.
Any government is possible. You do not know american history, or human history, enough or how the government works. If America continues after Donald Trump, then it will be something completely different than what it looked like before him. More and more Democratic Socialists are getting elected. Socialism is more and more likely the more socialists americans elect. My state house of representatives in Kentucky got one more. Times may be changing.
Your view of humans is wrong btw. You may be projecting.
Are you conflating democratic socialism with full blown socialism? That is most certainly not true socialism.
Evidence in my favor includes the Nordic countries, having a very firmly capitalist society with strong welfare policies. They blow the west out of the water on social outcomes.
But that’s not socialism. That’s exactly what I’m advocating for.
So do you think the Nordic countries are still too capitalist, or do you actually mean to argue that they’re an example to follow? I guess it has to be the first?
Democratic socialism is not social democracy. The nordic model is social democracy (european capitalism I call it). Democratic socialism is socialism, the thing I keep saying I want.
Europe is capitalist, I want socialism. Europe, as a whole, is too right wing and not anti capitalist, pro socialist, and leftist enough for me. I want america to be more socialist than capitalist europe. I do not care about Europe’s future politically or their choices. I am more than happy to take what works for them, but I won’t base that idea off of a meme. I don’t think capitalism works for everyone in this world, and I’m not okay with it working for just a few. I am willing to be taxed higher, and I am okay with you being taxed higher, to achieve a system that lets the US coincide with the rest of the world without killing people. This means European capitalism (social democracy) is not enough for me.
I don’t care about the west. ‘The west’ is a mythological culture that doesn’t exist. Anyone who uses ‘the west’ with me will be met with a blank stare unless you closely define what that means, because I don’t believe anyone actually knows what that is. Democracy on its own accord is insufficient to establish pluralism, universalism, and cosmopolitanism. It needs socialism to achieve that. No amount of capitalistic regulation is going to bring in a multi-cultural state that treats every worker equally. Capitalism cannot treat its workers well. This is a fact. Capitalists may have offices in your ‘western’ countries that have high quality of life, but the actual bottom-tier laborers are in other places that don’t have such high living standards, and capitalists in the west like this arrangement.
Analogy: it’s more realistic to cut a tumor out and heal the patient than to keep it growing at an acceptable rate.
Ah yes, except for when the tumor is 90% of the body. Then you can’t just cut it out.
Good analogy, I like it.
If I’m hard-wired for greed and self-preservation, why do I let people go ahead of me in traffic? Why do I give money to beggars? Why do I vote for people who will raise taxes on me?
And why do so many other people do these things? If they are hardwired for greed and self preservation? Are they not human?
Our intelligence allows us to override our base instincts.
The hardware is self preservation and greed. You raise a human in the wild with no social connection what will you get? A cooperative person? Lol. No.
So many of you are so confident in your assertion that humans are cooperative by nature. That is laughable. We cooperate because we are smart enough (some of us) to figure out that cooperation is the best path forward. Take all the external factors out, introduce some danger and you’ll see just how cooperative we are…
I disagree with your entire assertion, because there have been plenty of studies done that do not support it.
Humans are a social species by nature. We help each other on an instinctual level. We evolved that way, because it happened to be more effective for survival.
The people who behave in the way you describe, helping others only when it benefits them, are called sociopaths. They are unusual, and not the majority. Indeed, one of the ways in which they exploit us for their own gain is that normal humans feel good when they help someone.
Perhaps you do not feel this. Perhaps you have a bit of sociopathy. This does not necessarily condemn you, btw, most sociopaths do not become monsters, due to the benefits of cooperation that you describe.
I simply mention it because it may explain why you believe something which is inaccurate.
Lol…man oh man that’s quite the passive aggressive “you might be wrong cause you’re fucked up”
You do realize that “feeling good” being altruistic is a selfish reason to do it. That is the benefit. Feeling good is a reward. You are literally describing doing something in order to get a positive reward which you then described as sociopathic. Just because the reward is “feeling good” doesn’t make it any different. Are you a sociopath?
Obviously humans are a social species. The social part is only as functional as the social circle around it. You put a bunch of total strangers in an urgent life or death situation, do you really believe there will be any altrusim? Really? Come on now…
We can absolutely be altruistic. The context is everything. What you would do with total strangers, high stakes and complete anonymity is what I’m talking about. Anything besides that and you have social factors influencing the picture, even if it’s just about feeling good.
Edit: clarity
If you exclude the essential social nature of a human from your scenario, and somehow anonymise them… Where exactly does this apply? I have been in a survival situation with strangers. We all just worked together to do the right thing, and make sure everyone was safe.
If your proposed essential human selfishness is so limited that it means they mostly do the right thing…
hardwired for greediness and self-preservation.
Speak for yourself. Some of us are out here building communities with our own blood, sweat, and tears.
Socialism isn’t a binary concept any more than Capitalism is. You can have capitalist activity alongside freely available publicly funded institutions - national parks, libraries, etc. People who say they want socialism usually want a specific list of human needs publically funded. This is perfectly possible in a capitalist economy, as OP’s list illustrates.
So what you’re saying is the ideal system (or at least what most people who say they want socialism think is ideal is capitalism with strong, firmly enforced and well thought out regulations?
No, that’s a tremendous oversimplification. I’m saying capitalism alongside publicly funded necessities for survival and wellbeing. Nobody starves, nobody is homeless. If you want it summed up as a slogan how about, “We don’t leave our people behind.”
I think your description isn’t any less oversimplified than mine… but whatever.
Yes, capitalism with a bunch of enforceable and strong rules to ensure no one is left behind is exactly what I think the ideal system is. Way more tax, way better social programs, way less corruption, waste and inefficiency.
We are literally hardwired for cooperation, as a hyper social species. Maybe do some scientific research before you go spouting off your garbage political opinions which aren’t based in science.
Did you take your meds on the day you chose your user name?
Edit: if you actually believe in science (doubtful, you just use those words as a club) why don’t you read up on some evolutionary psychology and come back and share with the class what you find.
Enjoy the down votes, dumbass.
Nuh uh
You sure showed me, dumbfuck.
No u
Yes, but the first one is not true.
Tired of calling what countries like Australia and Germany have as “universal healthcare”.
It isn’t. Simply isn’t.
In the case of Australia most familiar with. It’s a weird mix of public and private, with most medical costs covered under a private subsidy model, where your health service can change whatever, and you have to pay the gap between the Medicare rebate and what the services charges.
Doesn’t cover dental, has a small rebate for physio and other allied health (again, private providers, public rebate) and covers a basic check up for eyes every 3 years only, but doesn’t cover most optical.
The hospital system is also an absolute mess of a two-tiered system I won’t get into here.
It’s not fucking universal and I’m sick of people pretending like it is. It’s just kilometres better than the USA, which is the lowest bar ever.
Yeah, similarly in Canada which actually is single payer so yay, but is constantly, constantly under attack by privatisation hawks.
It’s a constant fucking struggle to keep the rich from raiding our commons. They’re always grasping, groping, taking, draining. It’s exhausting.
That’s not at all how it works in Germany, though. Dental treatments are paid, as is medication. There is a surcharge for medication, which is capped at 10 Euros. And some dental options, which are not strictly necessary (debatable in many cases, I’ll give you that!) are not included. Physio and optical costs are also included.
Some of the payments require a doctor’s prescription in order to be accepted, but I would call that pretty fucking universal.
Dental treatments are paid
Nonsense. Dental treatments are slightly subsidised, but even with the subsidy are more expensive than paying outright in cash in France. They are only covered if you’re, like, gonna die from a tooth infection or something, and then they’ll remove it but not do anything about the missing tooth. The subsidy doesn’t even fully cover simple fillings, which still cost more than 100€ even for shitty resin ones. Let alone a ceramic crown for a front tooth which is like 600-1000€. Why do you think everyone goes to Poland or Turkey when they need real dental care?
Ok, here’s what is subsidised, assuming you speak German:
Call that nonsense if you wish, I’m not going to enter into a discussion of that kind.
So clearly you haven’t been to the dentist in Germany, or even read that very article you posted. Yes the 6-monthly checkup is covered, that’s great. But the subsidy for fillings in molars, for example, only covers amalgam fillings. Dentists don’t actually do those anymore, so you have to pay more than 100€ “extra” to get a resin one. The majority of other situations are similar to that. In the end, even though the rule says that medically necessary things are supposed to be covered, in practice they really aren’t.
If it covers everyone, then it’s universal. Doesn’t mean that it can’t be improved, but that’s literally what universal healthcare coverage means.
Universal healthcare means it covers all healthcare. If you’re needing pay pay out of pocket to private providers, and it doesn’t even cover a bunch of things, I refuse to call that universal - and so should you.
Universal means nothing, otherwise.
Medicare defenders really need to dream bigger, damn.
Universal healthcare means it covers all healthcare.
I mean, no. It doesn’t. And as an example off the top of my head, the NHS in the UK doesn’t cover dental. It’s still universal health care.
I’m not defending Medicare or anything here, id appreciate it if you didn’t put words in my mouth.
Simply explaining what the term means.
We shall have to agree to disagree then. Calling a healthcare system that doesn’t cover all available healthcare universal just doesn’t make sense.
I can accept that’s what people call it, but that’s about it.
I think they’re wrong.
By this logic the USA has universal healthcare, because a hospital must treat you for emergency, life-saving care, even if you’re unable to pay.
So, the definition is absurd if it’s just that a system covers everyone.
The definitions I’ve seen mention the ability for anyone to receive medical care without fear of financial hardship. Which I guess also isn’t a perfect definition.
No it doesn’t. What would that even mean. Where do you draw the line between what is and isn’t medical care. You could classify any country as either having universal healthcare coverage or no healthcare coverage at all under that definition.
Healthcare is whatever medical professionals deem medically necessary, that’s where I would draw the line.
I’m no doctor, but dentistry and optometry is most certainly medically necessary (at least, this is my understanding of what medical professionals say!), and those are largely NOT covered under Medicare.
“Universal” is a superlative. It makes sense that it should mean everything, yes.
Universal is a synonym of all. I’m dying on this hill.
Even if people think it’s just it ‘covers’ everyone, how much it covers is relevant. My hyperbolic example is that just because it covers everyone doesn’t mean we should call it universal if it doesn’t cover everything (or extremely little in the case of the US). I’m saying, if we want to call it universal, it should actually cover you for everything you might actually need for your healthcare.
That is objectively not the case. Medicare does not cover you for a bunch of things, and as discussed in a previous comment, makes you wait months and months for medically necessary but you-won’t-die-today surgery, when we have more than enough wealth in this country to pay for it all.
Universal healthcare should cover all medically necessary healthcare in a timely fashion, private health should receive no subsidy, and you should be ineligible for public healthcare when on private, to make it compete (it won’t, it’ll immediately be a bad deal, which it is).
This isn’t pie-in-the-sky requests, it’s possible, it would just hurt the profits of private insurance companies, and private clinic owners who charge way above the rebate and make you pay out of pocket costs. We can and absolutely should create a fully public system, where people are employees of the health service.
Just pay medical staff properly so we don’t lose anyone to overseas, and let’s make it universal.
Medicare isn’t that good, is the point I was trying to originally make.
Rant over 😅
Imma be real I’m not reading that. But whatever it is, it isn’t “healthcare for everyone.” And that feels like the neat and simple answer here as opposed to whatever you’re doing.
Aight, healthcare for everyone (even if it is not equitable, and doesn’t cover a bunch of stuff) can be your definition.
TL;DR for you: Medicare isn’t nearly as good as it should and can be, and it’s kinda sad people call it a “universal healthcare” system.
Also no one forced you to reply. Am I supposed to feel bad for writing out my reasoning in a medium length comment? Just seems like you want to say someone is wrong without actually justifying your position.
I gave a reason and it fit in a couple sentences. Less is more my guy, no need to get salty about it.
I’m convinced the reason is “We can’t do that, black people would get it. White people have the good jobs and will get that all on their own.”
You think you’re the only racist developed country in the world?
Nah, mate. It’s capitalism. Capitalism, as a system, always needs a powerful country to be its base, where capital can politically defend itself and control the political system to keep the corporations strong, and wield that country’s military against any foreign country that refuses to accept the domination of the corporations.
It was Amsterdam at first, then Britain for a long while, then in the 19th century it started moving to the USA, where it prospered mightily.
Capitalism cannot let the people be the priority. It must hold profit above all else, it’s the nature of the machine. This is not a decision made by a person, this is how the system of capitalism works.
