I thought we should bring some attention to this.
Richest Americans: “You guys pay taxes?”
Starting next year they will be in the US too. We just had to wait for Trump’s cuts for the wealthy to expire.
Hmm, in USA, the richest 1% payed 42.3% of all income taxes in 2020.
Of course, someone had to shit on America.
Which never deserves shitting on since it’s a marvelous place that only does good for its citizens and the world!
Yes, clearly, by pointing out the absurdity of shitting on America in a piece about the Netherlands, I’m saying that America is perfect. It’s always black and white; there’s no room for nuance.
It’s only absurd if you don’t consider taxation of the rich a geopolitical issue.
But I would suggest most people here do not share that belief.
It’s only absurd if you don’t consider taxation of the rich a geopolitical issue.
If you had said something about billionaires across the world, this defense would hold some water. But it wasn’t, it was just mindless shitting on America. Couldn’t just talk about another country and it’s problems, without the knee-jerk claim that America is worse.
Which is the country that by far has the most billionaires?
Go ahead and look it up, I’ll wait.
Which is the country that by far has the most billionaires?
The US. You said it’s a worldwide issue. The US is the world now?
Its hard not to when y’all elect people like trump and biden
If it’s hard for you to talk about anything other than shitting on the US, that sounds like you have an obsession problem.
As an American, I can’t help but wonder why you’re so defensive of the US. It’s like you’re a shitty guy who just heard someone say they would pick the bear.
If it’s an article about the us being shitty, and people point out the us is shitty, I wouldn’t say anything because that’s the topic. But it’s tired when it’s just every time anything is mentioned, someone here has to point out that the us is shitty.
Basically, you have it backwards. It’s not me constantly being defensive of the us, it’s everyone here constantly attacking it.
Then do your part to not make your country a fucking shithole that throws shit at the rest of the world.
Fuck has Team America not taught y’all anything?
I mean Team America was a pretty lowkey pro military intervention and pro america movie, to be honest. He’d probably have the opinion he would have if he had watched that movie and especially if he’d listened to the classic longwinded matt and trey speech that they throw in at the end to kind of spell out the message, it’s just that nobody really watches or remembers anything other than the like, first 20 minutes of that movie, where the protagonists get hit with kind of a low point and “america” kind of looks bad, because those first twenty minutes make the most memorable use of the gag.
How does me pointing out that this knee jerk America hating has shit all to do with the article preclude me from working to make the us a better place?
Or are you like flying squid and you can’t fathom a world where some doesn’t join in a mindless circle jerk, so they just think the exact opposite?
America has been Shitting on Canada for a long time. Alaska should belong to Canada ya fuckwit
Lol wtf does Canada and Alaska have to do with anything? Holy shit that’s an insane post.
Ah one does not know history… Do yourself a favour and stop eating taco bell
So…nothing? Layering on more insanity doesn’t remove the previous insanity.
That’s because we’re the main protagonist and they get shot up the butt with bidets
Looks like they play the same game there as they do in the US. Get most of their income from investment vs actual salary, and of course the investment is taxed less than regular income.
Super late to the party but every comment in response to yours is incorrect or not the full reason for capital gains being taxed less than income tax. The economic justification for a lower tax rate on capital gains relative to ordinary income is threefold: it is not indexed for inflation, it is a double tax, and it encourages present consumption over future consumption. The biggest being the last point, the gov’t wants people investing, borrowing and spending so the lower tax is an incentive to keep your money in the .arket and not in a savings account or under your mattress.
I shouldn’t have started by saying the other comments are wrong, but they all seemed to miss the actual reason you were asking about.
I will never understand why capital gains should be taxed less than income. It’s in itself a statement against the working class.
For the same reason my transportation costs to go to work and my housing costs are not tax deductible. We’re not tge protagonists of the story, so, fuck us.
AFAIK Biden has plans to change the long-term capital gains rate to match the ordinary income rate, but I’m not sure of the current status of that.
For what it’s worth, people with low incomes (less than $47k) aren’t taxed on long-term capital gains at all.
So the real / original answer to this was the idea that we should avoid double taxation. If you were taxed on income already, and then invested that income which is now post tax, that capital gains then should be less taxed (or some argue not taxed) because you already paid taxes on it.
I’m of the opinion that I think taxes should be based on any income you make, based on the wealth you have. Source of income for the wealthiest should be irrelevant (and yes this includes in my mind realizing gains from stocks by borrowing against them).
The double tax argument is dumb because the money you’ve put in is not taxed, thus the capital gain.
So there is no double tax because only the portion that wasn’t taxed is.
Well they’d argue that the money they put in is taxed, presumably because it was income and subject to income tax. So any income used to assess tax, they’d argue is taxed.
I’d just argue any income (including from capital gains) should be taxed according to your wealth. I don’t care if it has already been assessed for tax. If it’s income, and you already have excessive wealth, you should be paying a hefty tax. The point of taxes is redistribution of wealth and communal improvement (eg infrastructure) so I really don’t care if something is taxed once twice or more times, I care that wealth is taxed and used for public good.
Capital gains taxes are only levied against the profit earned from investment, not the gross value returned to the stakeholder.
If someone buys a stock for $100, then later sells it for $150, only $50 is taxed. So the money that was “already taxed” by income taxes isn’t being double taxed at all, regardless of the rate of the capital gains tax.
Unless, of course, you count the fact that it was taxed as income by the person who gave it to you, in which case all money has been taxed numerous times before and the argument is that taxes in general are bad.
Yeah, I think in general people come up with veiled reasons for lower taxes but fundamentally it’s just because they don’t want to pay taxes at all.
I like taxes. I like having roads (though I want more public transportation), I like having firefighters and public parks and protected green spaces and…
Yup.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d be glad for more money in my take-home, but in general I’m in favor of the things taxes pay for. I’d prefer to just be paid better.
I agree with you. I would rather see the money back in the community instead of making rich people richer.
At one point in the US history, the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. It makes sense. If you don’t want to get taxed, just recirculate the money.
But at one point, the rich captured the politicians and different state machines and lowered their tax, created a bunch of loopholes, and just fucked everyone over.
So I’m for a wealth tax. And one fucking thing that should change is that a cash loan backed by assets should be taxed as income.
In an economy without inflation I agree.
Parking money in a bank so that interest covers inflation shouldn’t be reduced by tax.
Because the people who own for a living make the laws.
Don’t get me wrong, they’ll tell you any BS they think you’ll beleive to try and justify it. Things like “encourages investment”, as if they would suddenly decide they dont want money for doing no work, or “tax is theft”, as if the only difference between what they do and what a state does with taxes (charging people for using their things) is the fact that one of them is a state and the other isn’t, are all just lies told by the rich to bring down their tax bill.
They tell these appalling lies because they’re either an idiot who doesn’t know any better or they think that you are.
Depends on the capital.
If it applied to your primary residence, then your prospects to afford to move would be pretty slim. Of course, for most people this won’t matter, since primary residence is exempt for a good amount every two years.
I could also imagine a capital gains offset to account for inflation. If you have 5% gains with 9% inflation, you get to pay taxes despite in real terms losing money.
there’s a special 100% exemption for sale of a primary residence you lived in for 3 of the last 5 years in the US so it has little to do with fhe rationale for the low capital gains of everything else.
The inflation argument would be fair if there were automatic adjustments for inflation in wages including minimum wage. You get to pay taxes while losing money on your salary so you might as well lose them on capital gains. This is not the bucket of crabs argument, it’s just fairness as i’m absolutely in favor of taxes.
I hate to admit it but it seems that way. Our social systems, transport, healthcare, etc. were severely degraded by rightwing policies, and now many people voted for an even more rightwing party, as if they are gonna clean up the mess. Fucking idiots.
It’s the plan of defunding many public services so they can’t work efficiently then point to that inefficiency as proof that government is bad. Then they promote the “extremely efficient” private sector as the savior to all the bad government problems. And it just happens that these representatives own businesses that can supply all these goods and services at a modest profit of course.
Yeah, not like the working classes aren’t starved of actual cost of living wages and have to scale back everything in the ‘age of subscription fees’. This also isn’t limited to NL.🥲
There’s only two things I hate in this world:
- Those who are intolerant of other people’s culture.
- The Dutch.
What’s the second thing?
I understood that reference! (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Ban
So you like politicians? BAD! BAD BOY! GET OUTTA HERE! GO! GO ON! GYET!
Wow, how progressive that they pay anything at all!
It’s almost as if rich people are the common denominator in this equation. Substitute this person into a new context and they find a way to exploit the game in that arena.
The answer lies in the hands of the people who make stuff. When we say we are not going to play this game any more rich people are forced to the negotiation table because they have no chance to make any of the stuff, their stock and trade is lies.
The problem is this relies on the people who make stuff making a huge sacrifice on behalf of everyone else. This won’t change until everyone else is willing to at least match what rich people can offer to people who make stuff. Unfortunately everyone else are not willing to match this unless people who make stuff can offer a product of equivalent value. Making a product of equivalent value takes time, which gives rich people ample opportunity to offer more than everyone else is willing to.
The shift in power from concentrated wealth has been happening for a long time. After the plagues of the 13th century there was a shortage of skilled labour which tipped the balance of power towards common people. This trend has continued despite the tendency towards concentration of wealth. Contemporary examples of this phenomena are the rise of tech workers and open source tools. The pushback from the wealthy class takes the form of closed and proprietary systems, such as Apple products. Whatever we can do as individuals to create open platforms such as Lemmy, Wikipedia and Linux are the way forward.
Yeah and those 28% they “pay” they probably get back from the irs with some creative number swapping… fuck off they dont pay shit. Meanwhile i have to pay for my electricity twice, one to use it and second time because i also produce it because i have solar panels and dont use it al straight away. fuck off please.
The Dutch equivalent to the IRS, but yes, probably… And that’s for a “progressive” country like the Netherlands. For other places this income and tax disparity is potentially* even higher.
I could have said de belastingdienst. But then ppl might think i had a slight stroke :)
Oh and for the progressive? That went out the window a few years ago. We are actually heading in the opposite direction. At least when it comes to drugs, lgbtq and stuff
Fair enough haha, saw someone already struggle with Wageningen B-Series propellers recently. Belastingdienst is a magnitude worse to read/pronounce…
I also meant relatively progressive, as you’ll agree it’s still better than many other places we consider 1st world.
Well to be fair the g’s in there are quit hard for someone not dutch. Should try Scheveningen that one is always fun. Or ‘s-Hertogenbosch
For the long den bosh, you just skip the 's, right?
Well you say the s and h together sh its old spelling no one uses it anymore really
belasting
Ha that sounds like “burdening” in Danish. Funny your IRS is called that.
Here it’s called SKAT which is the same word we use for “darling”, also a bit ironic IMO.Skat? Haha, that has a different meaning in english
I’m guessing you mean a word that is pronounced the same, but with a c instead of k?
That’s actually kind of fitting. lolEdit:
Ah it can also be a type of singing? Let’s go with that.Indeed. See Scatman john. The song is about type speaking. But i originally was not thinking of that tbh haha
Well that seems about right “belasting” if translated literally is sort of like putting pressure on things. So a burden :)
Oh yeah, here in the States they pay the “what are taxes?” rate
Selling surplus production from solar panels have been pretty worthless the past month here too. But that doesn’t change that the production I use myself, is very profitable because the transport and taxes are very expensive and those are saved too. The electricity itself is dirt cheap currently, actually most days around zero during daytime. I bet it’s similar your place. (I’m in Denmark)
I don’t quite understand why you feel cheated, when in fact you are also doing some tax evasion of sorts having solar panels, as you don’t have to pay taxes on the electricity you have produced yourself. Are you really whining you can’t get above market price for the electricity you sell?
Edit:
OK since I’m downvoted I may be wrong, are you saying you have to pay taxes on the power you use you produced yourself? I find that hard to believe.Well i (didnt downvote btw) yes we pay tax on both. That is when we use power when there is no sun i have to buy it from the power company with jot just 1 but several taxes. The power i produce (i have many solarpanels and cannot use all of it when its produced) i send that back which costs money and yes also taxed. I could break down the tax system for “normal” ppl but i would just give you nightmares. I also have seen a construction a friend (accountant) of mine uses for a rich client, but thise things are so fucking complicated i just trust him when he says they pay almost nothing (1 or 2%)
You forgot to mention the thing I asked, do you pay tax on the power you produce that you use yourself? Obviously you should pay the same taxes as everybody else on power you buy, here the power we sell isn’t taxed on private installations less than 20kWh I think is the limit. Above that, it’s taxed as income. Still I bet you don’t pay taxes on the power you make and use yourself.
There are 3 scenarios, and here the system is:
1 Power you buy (taxed for everybody)
2 Power you produce and use (not taxed)
3 Power you produce and sell (not taxed on private installations below 20 kWh)The one I specifically asked about was situation number 2, and you only answered 1 and 3.
Power companies originally had to pay you for adding excess power to the grid in the U.S., but states keep passing laws that say they don’t have to. I guess it could be worse.
Short version sort of the same. The surplus they had to pay you an amount but now you pay for wat you deliver them and they cannsell that to others so they make 2x the money, from me who supplies it and the person that uses it.
See Texas…
Here in Indiana too.
Misleading title. Not incorrect, but it is based on what the source of income is, it is not about how rich you are relative to the rest of the population. The title makes it sound like if you make a certain amount of money, your tax rate is lowered. Alternatively, it sounds like the richest Dutch are evading 12% worth of taxes. But neither of these are true statements AFAIK, and either way they aren’t made in the article, so the title is misleading.
Edit: Changed “the top 1%” to “the richest Dutch”.
It’s still ridiculous that capital is taxed at a lower rate than labor.
Fair point, albeit a different one from the one I was making.
I just copied the title as per the community rules
Oh, I’m not blaming you at all, I’m just commenting on the article
I mean, it seems they want to focus on the outcome not the reason so the title is pretty much on point.
Not misleading, no one misunderstands
This is the same thing we’ve been complaining about in the US:
- tax rate is progressive, to a point, but only for “regular income”
- wealthy pay lower rates by virtue of “different types of wealth/income” that the rest of us really can’t take advantage of.
- also denigrated as “loopholes” to avoid taxes while staying within the law, only available to the wealthy
Not misleading, no one misunderstands
Speak for yourself, I misunderstood. I thought that income above a certain point was taxed at 28%.
Your rich people pay taxes?!?
Lucky.
The Golden rule in action; the one with the gold makes the rules.
Americans: “Your billionaires pay taxes”?
Not really.
“The Unduchables” takes a whole different meaning.
They lobbied to make it happen, us poors haven’t done anything with our 63¢ savings.
Maybe Monarchy isn’t the best system of government?
This is /s right?
No, not sarcasm, monarchies are dumb. The Netherlands Monarchy also has more involvement and control over the country than other examples like the UK.
Same as everywhere else. All taxpayers are equal, except the rich, who are more equal than others. Everywhere.
